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suggested change to witch hunter

AuthorMessage
Lieutenant
Dec 19, 2011
133
Ratbeard, I had talked about this epic before, and after doing additional matches in which this epic came into play, I have a suggestion. Can you make this only work if a staffy weapon is equipped? This way, melee and musket classes can still use it if they have a combo weapon, but it would at least require them to make that weapon choice and possibly give up something else to be able to use it.

As it is now, I dont think its fair to have this epic in PVP. As a witch, I cant have my staffy weapon use an epic to attack a buccaneer that is right next to me prior to him hitting me with an melee hit. And I similarly I cant attack a musketeer with an epic prior to being hit with a gun attack. The only way for me to do this would be to use a combo weapon and also have first strike or quick draw trained or equipped through gear. So it would make sense for other classes to have to use a staffy weapon to use witch hunter, or at least a combo staffy weapon, just as I would have to use a combo weapon in order to do a "pre-emptive" attack.

This just came into play in a match in which I was facing a buccaneer, all companions were dead, and shields were depleted as well as hides. We both had around a thousand health. To have any chance to win I would have to attack with a reaver at that point, but when I did this, the buccaneer got a hit with witchhunter and then relentless and won. It would be nice if I could have the same ability with my staffy weapon.
Lieutenant
Jun 08, 2009
126
stormy quentin ver... on Sep 2, 2015 wrote:
Ratbeard, I had talked about this epic before, and after doing additional matches in which this epic came into play, I have a suggestion. Can you make this only work if a staffy weapon is equipped? This way, melee and musket classes can still use it if they have a combo weapon, but it would at least require them to make that weapon choice and possibly give up something else to be able to use it.

As it is now, I dont think its fair to have this epic in PVP. As a witch, I cant have my staffy weapon use an epic to attack a buccaneer that is right next to me prior to him hitting me with an melee hit. And I similarly I cant attack a musketeer with an epic prior to being hit with a gun attack. The only way for me to do this would be to use a combo weapon and also have first strike or quick draw trained or equipped through gear. So it would make sense for other classes to have to use a staffy weapon to use witch hunter, or at least a combo staffy weapon, just as I would have to use a combo weapon in order to do a "pre-emptive" attack.

This just came into play in a match in which I was facing a buccaneer, all companions were dead, and shields were depleted as well as hides. We both had around a thousand health. To have any chance to win I would have to attack with a reaver at that point, but when I did this, the buccaneer got a hit with witchhunter and then relentless and won. It would be nice if I could have the same ability with my staffy weapon.
I think the melee classes have enough leverage as it is I've also encountered this problem when I'm facing a buccaneer with witchunter as I sure don't want to auto him but don't want to use a witch power for fear of hunter then I can't even move out of range cause then repel boarders will trigger
Lieutenant
Feb 02, 2013
119
stormy quentin ver... on Sep 2, 2015 wrote:
Ratbeard, I had talked about this epic before, and after doing additional matches in which this epic came into play, I have a suggestion. Can you make this only work if a staffy weapon is equipped? This way, melee and musket classes can still use it if they have a combo weapon, but it would at least require them to make that weapon choice and possibly give up something else to be able to use it.

As it is now, I dont think its fair to have this epic in PVP. As a witch, I cant have my staffy weapon use an epic to attack a buccaneer that is right next to me prior to him hitting me with an melee hit. And I similarly I cant attack a musketeer with an epic prior to being hit with a gun attack. The only way for me to do this would be to use a combo weapon and also have first strike or quick draw trained or equipped through gear. So it would make sense for other classes to have to use a staffy weapon to use witch hunter, or at least a combo staffy weapon, just as I would have to use a combo weapon in order to do a "pre-emptive" attack.

This just came into play in a match in which I was facing a buccaneer, all companions were dead, and shields were depleted as well as hides. We both had around a thousand health. To have any chance to win I would have to attack with a reaver at that point, but when I did this, the buccaneer got a hit with witchhunter and then relentless and won. It would be nice if I could have the same ability with my staffy weapon.
There are two problems I see with this:
1) All Privateer Companions have the option to train this. Are we just going to take that option away from them?

2) There already is a pre-emptive strike that requires a staffy weapon: Intuition. WitchDoctor players cannot access this talent yet(Darn you Raven's cry), but that is the same line talent as QD or FS. Witch Hunter is in its own league.

I see your issue, however Investing 5 training points and making other classes fight on will is a bit bias, don't you think? RatBeard has hinted on a method to keep players away from opponents(He hasn't said any specifics yet) as a solution to this very problem. To be fair, almost no one can come out against a Buccaneer when it is just the players remaining.
Lieutenant
Dec 19, 2011
133
Stormy Sam Templet... on Sep 2, 2015 wrote:
There are two problems I see with this:
1) All Privateer Companions have the option to train this. Are we just going to take that option away from them?

2) There already is a pre-emptive strike that requires a staffy weapon: Intuition. WitchDoctor players cannot access this talent yet(Darn you Raven's cry), but that is the same line talent as QD or FS. Witch Hunter is in its own league.

I see your issue, however Investing 5 training points and making other classes fight on will is a bit bias, don't you think? RatBeard has hinted on a method to keep players away from opponents(He hasn't said any specifics yet) as a solution to this very problem. To be fair, almost no one can come out against a Buccaneer when it is just the players remaining.
1) Companions can keep their epics, there are many epics that companions have that pirates cant train, and its not much of a problem for privateer companions to have them

2) Intuition? Doesnt that only work on staff attacks? Kind of like QD works on musket attacks and FS works on melee attacks? That wont help much, but if it does trigger on melee and musket attacks then yes, it would be a good epic to have and would be similar to how witch hunter works against witches

3) No, its not biased. Because witch hunter is the only epic that behaves in this way. A melee weapon or a musket weapon can get a preemptive attack on a staffy weapon or a spell. Its the only epic that currently behaves in this manner, so obviously, as a witchdoctor, I dont think its fair. Making it require a staffy weapon would make more sense IMO
Lieutenant
May 09, 2013
157
Stormy Sam Templet... on Sep 2, 2015 wrote:
There are two problems I see with this:
1) All Privateer Companions have the option to train this. Are we just going to take that option away from them?

2) There already is a pre-emptive strike that requires a staffy weapon: Intuition. WitchDoctor players cannot access this talent yet(Darn you Raven's cry), but that is the same line talent as QD or FS. Witch Hunter is in its own league.

I see your issue, however Investing 5 training points and making other classes fight on will is a bit bias, don't you think? RatBeard has hinted on a method to keep players away from opponents(He hasn't said any specifics yet) as a solution to this very problem. To be fair, almost no one can come out against a Buccaneer when it is just the players remaining.
See my post on a possible puzzling talent for witchdoctors, in the same way that buccaneers get turn the tide and bucklers get alert. I don't know exactly how it would work but if would take effect before a melee character approaches. If they can't reach you, they can't beat you.
Lieutenant
Feb 02, 2013
119
stormy quentin ver... on Sep 2, 2015 wrote:
1) Companions can keep their epics, there are many epics that companions have that pirates cant train, and its not much of a problem for privateer companions to have them

2) Intuition? Doesnt that only work on staff attacks? Kind of like QD works on musket attacks and FS works on melee attacks? That wont help much, but if it does trigger on melee and musket attacks then yes, it would be a good epic to have and would be similar to how witch hunter works against witches

3) No, its not biased. Because witch hunter is the only epic that behaves in this way. A melee weapon or a musket weapon can get a preemptive attack on a staffy weapon or a spell. Its the only epic that currently behaves in this manner, so obviously, as a witchdoctor, I dont think its fair. Making it require a staffy weapon would make more sense IMO
If we make it require a staffy weapon, then Privateer companions cannot use them, because they are melee or in specific cases ranged, but no Privy is a staffy user currently. You can't change the requirements of an epic for just players: It affects companions as well. To be fair, Witch Hunter in it of itself is a bit bias to go against WDs. Intuition is a pre-emptive attack against Staffy users that requires a staffy weapon(which is what you were suggesting Witch Hunter to be), hence my point being that there is already one out there, and making Witch Hunter nearly the same thing would be rather pointless. I am not saying that what you address is not a problem, however I don't think what you proposed in the original post is a solution to said problem.
Bosun
May 10, 2010
396
So, you have a problem with Witch Hunter because you lost to a Buccaneer that used 5 training points to get this talent and it killed you when you tried to use an attack that I have seen do 4k damage in one hit?

Sorry, but I personally think witch hunter is a great talent and it is based on the range of the class. Musketeers have more range against this attack than a privateer, swashbuckler, or buccaneer. Most of them will have to be right next to the witchdoctor to even have a chance of witch hunter to even be activated.

I don't really see the complaint here. Now I do agree, Witchdoctors should probably be able to get intuition, which would help the cause, but other than that, I don't really see any issues with the witch hunter talent.
Lieutenant
Dec 19, 2011
133
Darth JT on Sep 3, 2015 wrote:
So, you have a problem with Witch Hunter because you lost to a Buccaneer that used 5 training points to get this talent and it killed you when you tried to use an attack that I have seen do 4k damage in one hit?

Sorry, but I personally think witch hunter is a great talent and it is based on the range of the class. Musketeers have more range against this attack than a privateer, swashbuckler, or buccaneer. Most of them will have to be right next to the witchdoctor to even have a chance of witch hunter to even be activated.

I don't really see the complaint here. Now I do agree, Witchdoctors should probably be able to get intuition, which would help the cause, but other than that, I don't really see any issues with the witch hunter talent.
A reaver cannot do 4000 damage. A super will do under 2000. And you can read my posts to see the problems with it that I mentioned. Witchdoctors are already weaker than other classes in PVP due to lack of epics, low damage spells compared to strong melee attacks, low dodge, low accuracy, etc. So I said that it does not make sense to have an epic like this only working against witchdoctors. If they gave us inuition against melee/musket attacks it would be more fair, or of they limited witch hunter it would make if fair.
Bosun
May 10, 2010
396
stormy quentin ver... on Sep 3, 2015 wrote:
A reaver cannot do 4000 damage. A super will do under 2000. And you can read my posts to see the problems with it that I mentioned. Witchdoctors are already weaker than other classes in PVP due to lack of epics, low damage spells compared to strong melee attacks, low dodge, low accuracy, etc. So I said that it does not make sense to have an epic like this only working against witchdoctors. If they gave us inuition against melee/musket attacks it would be more fair, or of they limited witch hunter it would make if fair.
I am not sure how you have your witchdoctor setup, but a super hit with mojo reaver can do 4k damage, I know, I have seen it and I have done it, but you have to have your witchdoctor setup correctly. Do you have enough will, do you have naturally spooky, are you using only Moo Manchu rings, tokens, and charms or are you using the ones that give mojo mastery?

When you have the right combination, you would be amazed at the damage your spells can do. Also Witchdoctors are known for range, not close melee combat, you have a teleport spell and can train hide just as any other class can. There are ways around everything,

I don't agree with your complete assessment of Witch Hunter, but I do agree that witchdoctors should get intuition, that would be fair.
Commodore
Feb 02, 2013
838
Stormy Sam Templet... on Sep 2, 2015 wrote:
There are two problems I see with this:
1) All Privateer Companions have the option to train this. Are we just going to take that option away from them?

2) There already is a pre-emptive strike that requires a staffy weapon: Intuition. WitchDoctor players cannot access this talent yet(Darn you Raven's cry), but that is the same line talent as QD or FS. Witch Hunter is in its own league.

I see your issue, however Investing 5 training points and making other classes fight on will is a bit bias, don't you think? RatBeard has hinted on a method to keep players away from opponents(He hasn't said any specifics yet) as a solution to this very problem. To be fair, almost no one can come out against a Buccaneer when it is just the players remaining.
That is painfully true, i had 1700 health along witg a 1300 va on, against a buck with 500 health, i had an assassin in my hand and it was his turn, he breaks my shield with a triple critical relentless chain then kills me with another full bladestorm chain, i had elusive the entire time, even with tide i had a good 20 more dodge, since criticals are bugged bucks are even more powerful(YES THEIR BUGGED RATBEARD) and impossible to overcome for me if they trained witch hunter, heavens forbid they use a shooty slashy with burst fire too, someone did that too me and one round my privateer the second round, yea i could have fort myself, but then 1 or 2 of my companions would be deas from just him alone since im forced to have first strike just on the chance that its a buckler that i face
Commodore
Feb 02, 2013
838
Darth JT on Sep 4, 2015 wrote:
I am not sure how you have your witchdoctor setup, but a super hit with mojo reaver can do 4k damage, I know, I have seen it and I have done it, but you have to have your witchdoctor setup correctly. Do you have enough will, do you have naturally spooky, are you using only Moo Manchu rings, tokens, and charms or are you using the ones that give mojo mastery?

When you have the right combination, you would be amazed at the damage your spells can do. Also Witchdoctors are known for range, not close melee combat, you have a teleport spell and can train hide just as any other class can. There are ways around everything,

I don't agree with your complete assessment of Witch Hunter, but I do agree that witchdoctors should get intuition, that would be fair.
4k is only possible with doubloons, the most ive seen one do was 2400 with a super with over 300 will, teleport? Your joking right, against a buck? They have like 1000 charges you cant escape on such a small board, and yes witches arent meant for close combat but the highest damage power they have requires them to be right next to you, and quentin is the 2nd best 1v1 witch in my opinion and high above the skills ive seen you portray in matches
Bosun
May 10, 2010
396
zuto4011a on Sep 5, 2015 wrote:
4k is only possible with doubloons, the most ive seen one do was 2400 with a super with over 300 will, teleport? Your joking right, against a buck? They have like 1000 charges you cant escape on such a small board, and yes witches arent meant for close combat but the highest damage power they have requires them to be right next to you, and quentin is the 2nd best 1v1 witch in my opinion and high above the skills ive seen you portray in matches
I admit, I have been away from the game for quite awhile, I just tested and Mojo Reaver no longer does double damage when hidden. Yes, it did do double damage at one point in time. Shooty weapons still do double damage when hidden, so not sure why some things change and some things don't.

However, when hidden, Witch Hunter will not activate, which if a Buccaneer does decide to move away from the witchdoctor, the witchdoctor will get a free hit while hidden on the Buccaneer, possibly get mojo echo and or mojo rising and create the distance needed to finish of a buccaneer. So thee points given against witch hunter are still pointless.

What bothers me, is when people just keep coming up with excuses and complaints rather than finding actual solutions. I did agree, I think Witchdoctors should get intuition, but I don't think WItch Hunter should be only limited to Staffy weapons.
Lieutenant
Dec 19, 2011
133
Darth JT on Sep 6, 2015 wrote:
I admit, I have been away from the game for quite awhile, I just tested and Mojo Reaver no longer does double damage when hidden. Yes, it did do double damage at one point in time. Shooty weapons still do double damage when hidden, so not sure why some things change and some things don't.

However, when hidden, Witch Hunter will not activate, which if a Buccaneer does decide to move away from the witchdoctor, the witchdoctor will get a free hit while hidden on the Buccaneer, possibly get mojo echo and or mojo rising and create the distance needed to finish of a buccaneer. So thee points given against witch hunter are still pointless.

What bothers me, is when people just keep coming up with excuses and complaints rather than finding actual solutions. I did agree, I think Witchdoctors should get intuition, but I don't think WItch Hunter should be only limited to Staffy weapons.
Like I said in my original post, if witchdoctors got intuition, it would be fair. The only reason I am complaining is because we don't have an epic that works like witch hunter, and it does not seem fair to give other classes an epic that works only against magic attacks, without a similar epic for us to use as witches against them.
Ensign
Dec 14, 2013
14
I totally agree that unless something else changes; witch hunter should be limited to staffy weapons! Even though I love my buck getting witchhunter, follow through, blade storm, relelntless chains when I am playing witches (specially good ones like Quentin), witches have more than enough problems without adding witchunter to their problem list.
Maybe if Ki fixes witches for next season though other classes will need witch hunter against them. (like musket for example).
Bosun
May 10, 2010
396
stormy quentin ver... on Sep 7, 2015 wrote:
Like I said in my original post, if witchdoctors got intuition, it would be fair. The only reason I am complaining is because we don't have an epic that works like witch hunter, and it does not seem fair to give other classes an epic that works only against magic attacks, without a similar epic for us to use as witches against them.
Well, now your Witchdoctor can have intuition or even intuition 2 to counter the effects of witch hunter. Ask and ye shall receive...

DarthJT
Commodore
Feb 02, 2013
838
Darth JT on Sep 17, 2015 wrote:
Well, now your Witchdoctor can have intuition or even intuition 2 to counter the effects of witch hunter. Ask and ye shall receive...

DarthJT
how would that counter it? your still reduced and spammed
Bosun
May 10, 2010
396
zuto4011a on Sep 17, 2015 wrote:
how would that counter it? your still reduced and spammed
With intuition, you should attack before the witch hunter counter goes off, hence being intuition, then you can always have mojo echo &/or mojo rising go off in conjunction. The OPs whole post was about losing because he went to cast a spell at someone that was next to him and the witch hunter attack killed him first.

No, it should not matter what weapon the person using witch hunter is using, as witch hunter is a witchdoctor spell counter, so intuition should act first.
Bosun
Apr 28, 2014
398
Darth JT on Sep 17, 2015 wrote:
With intuition, you should attack before the witch hunter counter goes off, hence being intuition, then you can always have mojo echo &/or mojo rising go off in conjunction. The OPs whole post was about losing because he went to cast a spell at someone that was next to him and the witch hunter attack killed him first.

No, it should not matter what weapon the person using witch hunter is using, as witch hunter is a witchdoctor spell counter, so intuition should act first.
I agree with you, except for one thing: I dont think OP was casting a spell at a target next to him, that's the whole problem of witch hunter used by a melee weapon pirate.
Bosun
May 10, 2010
396
Silver Angel on Sep 18, 2015 wrote:
I agree with you, except for one thing: I dont think OP was casting a spell at a target next to him, that's the whole problem of witch hunter used by a melee weapon pirate.
In the OPs own words: As it is now, I don't think its fair to have this epic in PVP. As a witch, I cant have my staffy weapon use an epic to attack a buccaneer that is right next to me prior to him hitting me with an melee hit. And I similarly I cant attack a musketeer with an epic prior to being hit with a gun attack.

When he says epic, he means a card attack, not staff weapon attack, which does mean that witch hunter will activate, and if a witchdoctor has intuition, the witch doctor will attack first before the witch hunter activates.

This is the same thing as first strike or quick draw, except for witchdoctor spells, I don't see how this is not considered fair.
Bosun
Apr 28, 2014
398
Darth JT on Sep 20, 2015 wrote:
In the OPs own words: As it is now, I don't think its fair to have this epic in PVP. As a witch, I cant have my staffy weapon use an epic to attack a buccaneer that is right next to me prior to him hitting me with an melee hit. And I similarly I cant attack a musketeer with an epic prior to being hit with a gun attack.

When he says epic, he means a card attack, not staff weapon attack, which does mean that witch hunter will activate, and if a witchdoctor has intuition, the witch doctor will attack first before the witch hunter activates.

This is the same thing as first strike or quick draw, except for witchdoctor spells, I don't see how this is not considered fair.
Ah my bad. Still, buck's witch hunter will trigger even if he isnt targeted right? That's just not fair...

And about intuition, it *should* work as you said, but it doesnt I presume?