darkdoombro345 on Aug 21, 2014 wrote:

I'm gonna quit saying muppets not puppets- my sense of humor is too evolved for this establishment. Good day!

Sorry if I offended you. If you could let us know you're joking with a , it would help. Some hypotheses presented here were serious!

anecorbie on Aug 21, 2014 wrote:

Sorry if I offended you. If you could let us know you're joking with a , it would help. Some hypotheses presented here were serious!

Hahaha, ok, but still... with a name like Muppets not Puppets? It was just a somewhat clever play on words. I mean, not really incredibly clever, but...

anecorbie on Aug 22, 2014 wrote:

In J.K. Rowlings' Harry Potter series, the character of Bellatrix Lestrange is both formidable and scary, she is also supremely devoted to Voldemort; indeed bordering on adoration. But can this be described as love?
Could the Dame be in this mould?

Another debatable topic- I think Dame might be a bit more... human than the others. She may have emotions, whereas the others just followed Kane because they were programmed to. Which brings me back to the idea she might be on our side, seeing as she could've seen the un-ethnicality of the Armada...

anecorbie on Aug 22, 2014 wrote:

In J.K. Rowlings' Harry Potter series, the character of Bellatrix Lestrange is both formidable and scary, she is also supremely devoted to Voldemort; indeed bordering on adoration. But can this be described as love?
Could the Dame be in this mould?

Now, don't get me wrong, I love the Harry Potter series and think it truly excellent, but that is a bit of what I meant earlier: the female villain is a 'bad guy' out of love. So, when a female villain is based on this premise, generally, her personality essentially does not matter; she does what she does for love (or what she thinks is love). Though in the case of Bellatrix Lestrange, as CdeWinter points out, Rowling creates the character by tweaking the fanaticism of Voldemort's followers into something more intense, and adding a whopping dose of insanity and sadism. Even so, she is not a particularly compelling character: scary - yes, but mostly just... crazy (and honestly, I think that is intentional on the part of the author). Lestrange is not compelling the way a female villain acting on her own initiative is, someone like, oo, say... Milady deWinter (and more on that idea later).

But I think all of the Elite are devoted to Kane, yes, fanatically so, even Phule in his own peculiar way. After all, for them, what else is there? Why would they have sympathy to humans, who are so fragile and inferior to their refined mechanical forms? Why wouldn't they be devoted to their creator? Why wouldn't they also seek the ultimate victory of the living automata over the sentient animals? (and that includes us, by the way)

No, I'd like to think that the Lady Elite is as cold-hearted as the rest of them (really, she doesn't have a heart of course). Like the other Elites, she competes for Kane's favor but for the same reasons.

anecorbie on Aug 22, 2014 wrote:

I gave you a 'yar' because your reasons are presented clearly and the speculation that a female is more inclined to be intelligent enough to see through the sham of Kane and the Armada.
But sadly, I can't agree, it is a version of the stereotype that Anne presented in her post,. The version that says females are more gentle and sympathetic than males. All we need is for the Lady Elite to 'fall in love' with the hero and betray her 'people'. ( or in the case of a girl pirate, win her respect and admiration. )

Now, since we are discussing the Lady Elite, I think a very good question is: Why did Kane develop female automata anyway? He certainly did not need to... after all, I have yet to see toy soldiers in a box have female soldiers and officers represented, even though historically there have always been at least a few in real life.

I would venture to guess that first, Kane seems to reckon that the female form has certain advantages that can be exploited in combat. His most dangerous troops we have seen so far are the Dragoons and the Battle Angels, and both possess a ranged weapon and a melee weapon. Dragoons might be seen as sort of uber-males: huge, strong, powerful; quite capable of pounding an errant pirate into the pavement with very little effort. But while there are big, powerful human men who are also quite fast, that isn't the norm, and the Dragoons reflect that. They are not fast-moving (on the other hand, they don't have to be!). The Battle Angels with their female forms are fast and agile (I call them 'Ballerinas of Doom'), and although their weapons are not big, they certainly are sharp and deadly enough. Their slight forms are light enough to glide short distances on their mechanical wings, also ensuring a swift mobility. Now just imagine these swift, deadly fighters if Kane figures out how to have them develop 'hide in shadows'!

So it seems for Kane, that the female form = fast, light, graceful, very dangerous with small sparkguns and sharp objects. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see this prototype as the basis for the Lady Elite. But she is much more than that. With her, I believe Kane has perfected the art of deception -- very important in military tactics.

The Armada has a reputation. You see those clockwork soldiers coming, and you are going to run, hide, or fight. They are very good at sneak attacks (look at Deacon!), but in any parley their opposition is not going to be convinced that they come in peace, if that is the story Kane wants told.

Enter the Lady Elite. A number of people on the Message Boards have concluded that because she is gowned elegantly, she is not combat material. Of course, that is possible (though I really don't think so). But consider the famous example in fiction (actually based on a real person) of Milady deWinter. Milady - beautiful, utterly immoral, and cunning- has no real fighting skills but she charms the heroes into believing her innocence and leaves a startling path of theft, deception, betrayal, and murder in her wake. Now, just imagine Milady as if she was a deadly fighter! It would have been a lot tougher for the Three Musketeers and D'Artagnan!

So if the Lady Elite comes to us and claims that she is an unwilling pawn of Kane and will help us, would we believe her innocence? Would we trust her?

Anne Radcliffe on Aug 24, 2014 wrote:

Now, since we are discussing the Lady Elite, I think a very good question is: Why did Kane develop female automata anyway? He certainly did not need to... after all, I have yet to see toy soldiers in a box have female soldiers and officers represented, even though historically there have always been at least a few in real life.

I would venture to guess that first, Kane seems to reckon that the female form has certain advantages that can be exploited in combat. His most dangerous troops we have seen so far are the Dragoons and the Battle Angels, and both possess a ranged weapon and a melee weapon. Dragoons might be seen as sort of uber-males: huge, strong, powerful; quite capable of pounding an errant pirate into the pavement with very little effort. But while there are big, powerful human men who are also quite fast, that isn't the norm, and the Dragoons reflect that. They are not fast-moving (on the other hand, they don't have to be!). The Battle Angels with their female forms are fast and agile (I call them 'Ballerinas of Doom'), and although their weapons are not big, they certainly are sharp and deadly enough. Their slight forms are light enough to glide short distances on their mechanical wings, also ensuring a swift mobility. Now just imagine these swift, deadly fighters if Kane figures out how to have them develop 'hide in shadows'!

So it seems for Kane, that the female form = fast, light, graceful, very dangerous with small sparkguns and sharp objects. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see this prototype as the basis for the Lady Elite. But she is much more than that. With her, I believe Kane has perfected the art of deception -- very important in military tactics.

The Armada has a reputation. You see those clockwork soldiers coming, and you are going to run, hide, or fight. They are very good at sneak attacks (look at Deacon!), but in any parley their opposition is not going to be convinced that they come in peace, if that is the story Kane wants told.

Enter the Lady Elite. A number of people on the Message Boards have concluded that because she is gowned elegantly, she is not combat material. Of course, that is possible (though I really don't think so). But consider the famous example in fiction (actually based on a real person) of Milady deWinter. Milady - beautiful, utterly immoral, and cunning- has no real fighting skills but she charms the heroes into believing her innocence and leaves a startling path of theft, deception, betrayal, and murder in her wake. Now, just imagine Milady as if she was a deadly fighter! It would have been a lot tougher for the Three Musketeers and D'Artagnan!

So if the Lady Elite comes to us and claims that she is an unwilling pawn of Kane and will help us, would we believe her innocence? Would we trust her?

'Ballerinas of Death'! I know from previous posts that you are a fan of ballet. Of course you have noticed that they stand in third position, and pirouette in their attacks. They even 'die' in the standard 'lay down to sleep' used in Swan Lake, for example.
I hope KI doesn't make our pirates so gullible as to trust either Dame or Phule; as some players hope that they could be allies!
And no, you're not weird to be enjoying Shakespeare Although for songs, I prefer either "Sigh no More Ladies" or "It was a Lover and his Lass"
With a Hey Nonny Nonny!

post edit - sorry, you used the word 'Doom', not death!

Polaris1055 on Aug 26, 2014 wrote:

I wonder if the female clockwork is also a master of disguise as well as being a master of propaganda as blind mew said she kinda looks a wee bit like someone we've meet before like Queen Eleanor or one of the other queens in Monquista but in clockwork form maybe Queen Isadore she did send you to Zenda to but gortez in prison then betrayed you and tells the guards to kill you then gets the entire armada kinda sounds like something the armada would do don't you think..

It's an interesting suggestion that she might be a master of disguise. After all, we know very little about ( former ) Queen Isadora. Did she have any unexplained absences from the court? What happened to her after the revolution?
However, monkeys are very small and although its possible to disguise a face and voice, its more difficult for a tall person to imitate a short one.

well you never know what would be the only reason why Isadore turned the whole monquistan army against you. You did nothing to them and they never said they or short. Maybe The armada took a sample of Queen Eleanor to make "Isadore" (because they got the same hair and Voice and the other queens sound different) then threw Eleanor in jail so "Eleanor" changes her name to Isadore and hears your coming so she sets up a myth of the monkey's paw (Phule's Wand) and makes the demon monkeys and Dead monkeys.

darkdoombro345 on Aug 27, 2014 wrote:

Why were there so many governors for Peurto Mico, hmm?

Monkey's are fickle creatures & easily bored ( if you want to torture Monkey King, make him sit in a corner and give him nothing to do ).

darkdoombro345 on Aug 28, 2014 wrote:

Good point indeed, my good sir, good point indeed.

I don't wish to embarrass you, but maybe I haven't introduce myself properly; I'm Esperanza Devereaux, and I'm a female!

CdeWinter on Aug 22, 2014 wrote:

Hmm, Bellatrix is also quite off the deep end.
I wouldn't consider Bellatrix Lestrange's devotion to Voldemort as love, I'd call more something along the lines of fanatical devotion. And it is clearly very much one sided. So, yes perhaps Dame does have some sort of fanatical devotion towards Kane. But on his end, Kane views Dame only as a very loyal follower, being no better or more important than Deacon, Rooke, Bishop, or Phule.

I think the reason why we have not seen Dame yet, is not because Kane is somehow protecting her, or even holding her back in some way for later. I expect that Dame is extremely busy in Valencia, working as a combination public relations envoy, and spy on the Valencian aristocrats.

Did you know that you can say the word "milady" in game?! What if the Lady Elite is actually --- Milady!

anecorbie on Aug 28, 2014 wrote:

I think it is a co-incidence that those queens looked alike. Queen Anna and Queen Catherine were also twins. This is to spare the character modelers ( of KI ) from making hundreds of unique characters
It was King Ferdinand who ordered our execution, not Isadora. The Monkey's Paw was not a myth, as you recall, it was very real.
This isn't to say that the Lady can't be a spy or a master of disguise, your idea is creative and has merit.

thanks for commenting on my brilliant Ideas again Esperanza for some reason I think the Fortune from my fortune cookie was right it said "Your Creativity is needed by others". I think it's right. And I admit that I have a load of Ideas in my bedroom if Kingsile needs Suggestions like for the next book I'll be honored to tell you about my Idea for the world that i made up where Catbeard's original home world and back story of how he got to Marleybone.

Oh I will right Now!